Interview with a Hypnotherapist

Natasa Vasic is a psychologist-counselor and hypnotherapist. Since 2012, she has been engaged in psychotherapy, psychological dream interpretation, hypnotherapy, and organizing workshops, courses, and lectures on psychological themes. She runs the association Ansuz, which focuses on talented and gifted individuals. Her hypnotherapy sessions have quickly gained fame. In this conversation, she explains the theoretical foundations and practical methods of her work.

When did you start to be interested in psychology and contemporary psychological techniques?
I think I have always had an affinity for psychology. I remember being fascinated as a child by the deeper reasons behind people’s actions; I would always wonder how a person feels after certain situations when they are left alone with themselves. In the first year of high school, I started to read professional literature intensively, and by then I definitely knew that I would study psychology, even though I had a lot of other interests.

Do you consider that the formal education you have acquired is an essential foundation for your healing work?
Formal and informal education that I have acquired over the past decade and a half, and which I continue to pursue alongside my personal qualities, forms the foundation of my success in my work. Definitely, one without the other would not be enough. However, in my profession, there is no healing or healers. Healers are truly a rare phenomenon, and few people have the opportunity to even encounter a healer. Today, we live in a society where information, as well as media spaces, are available to absolutely everyone living in modern society, and a side effect of this is the proliferation of people who read a few texts online or undergo some quasi-training lasting a few months, and immediately declare themselves healers. Those who truly believe they are healers are described in professional literature in chapters about ideas of grandeur, while those who do not believe they are real healers, yet present themselves as such, can be categorized as frauds. True healers are incredibly rare, and this is not related to a conscious desire or decision. Healing is something that is simply given, and those who are given this gift have no choice but to be or not to be; it has nothing to do with their education. They simply are.

What is your opinion of the authorities whose work forms the foundation of modern psychology, Freud, Adler, Jung? What do you think about Jung’s concept of archetypes and the collective unconscious?
Their work is the foundation, the cornerstone, so to speak, of all directions in psychotherapy. Freud and Jung largely “borrowed” ideas from other systems to create something new and adapted to modern man. Jung often flirted with Eastern philosophy, while Freud, as much as he was a great opponent of religion, incorporated the confession characteristic of Christianity into his method. There are countless elements that are common to both confession and psychoanalysis: the spiritual figure listens attentively to the confessor, does not speak much, is value-neutral, does not judge, and the conversation is strictly confidential, having a therapeutic effect… At the moment when people began to alienate from Christianity, the most widespread religion in Europe, Freud provided them with a new method that practically serves the same purpose, only more adapted to the worldview characteristic of modern man. Unfortunately, few are indifferent to Freud. Most either follow him blindly or attack and discredit him just to discredit him. Personally, as a person, I find Freud completely unsympathetic, but his mind and work are truly fascinating. He is often accused of placing too much emphasis on the influence of sexuality on human life, but he has given everyone who wants to engage with humanity a tool that can be used arbitrarily. You do not necessarily have to view a person as a product in the clutches of sexual or aggressive drives to engage in psychological interpretation of dreams or to use Freud’s theories of personality or developmental stages as tools in your work. What is essential for understanding and utilizing his work is developed intuition, empathy, and creativity, and thus these methods are not accessible to everyone, regardless of knowledge and intelligence (especially true for interpreting dreams using Freud’s method). Those who lack the qualities necessary to implement Freud’s method tend to critically discredit him and devalue his work. Adler is a much less controversial figure than Freud and was dear to me even before I started my studies. According to Adler, Freud later presented his ideas—over which they had severed collaboration—as his own. His significant contributions to psychology include those about striving for superiority and feelings of inferiority, life styles, and birth order. In my work, I often encounter parents (who have multiple children) who do not understand how their children can be so different while growing up in the same conditions. Here, the theory of birth order is very useful for clarification. Jung and Freud began their collaboration in 1907, which lasted for seven years, after which they parted ways due to irreconcilable differences regarding the understanding of the theory of libido and the unconscious. However, Jung never disputed Freud’s contribution and believed that he deserved “life-long credit” for his dream theory. In 1913, Jung had a series of dreams in which a monstrous flood covers all northern lands and the lowlands between the North Sea and the steppes. Eventually, the entire sea turns into blood. This vision recurred in dreams a few weeks later, accompanied by a voice that said that it was all “completely real and that it would be so.” A series of similar ominous dreams followed, concluding in June 1914. In August 1914, the Great War broke out, and Jung realized that the dreams he had were not personal, so he wanted to understand the mechanisms in which his personal experience coincided with the experience of humanity as a whole. In 1917, after analyzing a large number of his own and others’ dreams, he came up with the idea of a transcendent unconscious. The collective unconscious is a repository of the total human spiritual experience of thousands of generations of our ancestors, passed down from generation to generation. Wisdom in the form of the collective unconscious can appear, among other things, in dreams, where it is on the border between the conscious and the unconscious, and where the Self has access to archetypal representations and symbols of the collective unconscious. In dreams, a person approaches something universal, a unique field of nature’s intelligence of which we are all a part. According to Jung, when individual experience is not sufficient for a person to confront the current situation, archetypal symbols contained in the collective unconscious emerge. Archetypal dreams are not frequent, and we do not encounter them every night, but far from it being an isolated case, Jung’s aforementioned dream is an example. Jung’s work, which has been largely criticized and disputed, is gaining significance with the development of quantum physics and is becoming more understandable and logical. Additional light on Jung’s work is shed by the research of Prof. Dr. Dejan Rakovic from the Faculty of Electrical Engineering in Belgrade. Professor Rakovic distinguishes between two states of consciousness: classical-reduced, i.e., the state of consciousness in which we find ourselves in waking state, and quantum-holographic, which includes altered states of consciousness such as deep meditation, prayer, daydreaming, hypnosis, but also REM sleep, which is more comprehensive than the classical-reduced state. According to his theoretical research on the quantum foundations of consciousness, quantum-holographic states of consciousness behave as part of a quantum cosmic hologram and as such carry information about the whole, which is registered in the mentioned altered states of consciousness. In these states, consciousness is no longer constrained by the senses and physical environment, allowing it to receive information about the cosmic quantum hologram as a whole. When a person returns to the classical-reduced, waking state, one member is extracted from the quantum-holographic sum of information, while the others disappear, which explains every spiritual-religious mystical experience, as well as Jung’s collective unconscious. Mystics of all traditions, as well as other people who have had the opportunity to experience such experiences, agree that in those states of consciousness everything is clear to them, but they have trouble explaining that experience to others and themselves. Rakovic’s research anticipates unusual anticipatory properties of the psyche that relate both to Jung’s “archetype” at the level of quantum-holographic collective consciousness, and may also relate to Plato’s world of ideas. Furthermore, Professor Rakovic points out the possibility that the ionosphere represents a dynamic collective memory of all biological species, continuously refreshed by biological entities with the periodicity and phase of their ultra-dial rhythms. To bring the information obtained in the quantum-holographic state of consciousness into awareness upon returning to the classical-reduced state of consciousness, it is necessary to overcome two filters: the acupuncture-nervous threshold filter (which requires “emotional coloring” of the problem being solved) and the brain’s fronto-limbic priority filter (which requires “emotional-cognitive priority” of the problem being solved).

How does hypnotherapy work, and what procedure is involved during the treatment?
Hypnosis is an ancient skill, with the earliest records found among the ancient Sumerians in the 4th century BC. Just like the Egyptian, Greek, and Roman priests, the Sumerians used hypnosis for therapeutic purposes. This skill has always been mystified, and the knowledge about it was passed down only to the chosen ones, which creates an ideal foundation for the formation of prejudices. Hypnotherapy is still relevant today and is used in clinics for therapeutic purposes in many countries, but prejudices about it also persist. It is believed that hypnosis is an unconscious state in which a person can be completely controlled and turned into a marionette. Such a thing is, of course, impossible. Hypnosis is a state we all experience at least twice a day—when we fall asleep and when we wake up. A person in hypnosis is awake and self-aware, in a pleasant state of mental and physical relaxation, with consciousness narrowed and focused on the suggestions agreed upon before the session begins. A person cannot be controlled because they accept only the suggestions that resonate with them and for which they are ready, meaning those that are not in conflict with their value system and moral norms. Therefore, it is impossible to achieve anything by force or if a person only partially desires change. Another widespread misconception is that people with weak willpower are the easiest to hypnotize, which is also incorrect. To be hypnotized, one must be determined, able to concentrate, and possess a vivid imagination. Very few people cannot be hypnotized, including those with below-average intelligence, individuals with dementia, and those with severe mental disorders. Hypnotherapy is a very powerful tool for creating positive changes and one of the fastest and most effective ways to acquire new knowledge.

What are the most common problems that can be addressed with hypnotherapy, and in which areas have the effects of this therapy proven to be successful?
The fields of application for hypnotherapy are practically unlimited, as hypnosis works on the subconscious, which controls all physiological functions. Among other things, it is used to relieve anxiety, depression, and negative emotions, to help quit smoking, for weight loss, to eliminate all kinds of phobias and fears, for insomnia and pain management, and to address issues such as nail-biting and bedwetting. Hypnosis is effective for improving memory, concentration, self-confidence, working on self-discipline, and achieving better results in school, sports, or work. It can refresh very early memories or bring awareness to memories of past lives. Some people tend to believe more in past lives and reincarnation, while others believe less; however, what is important to note is that in any case, during hypnotic regression, the client’s subconscious is accessed, and there is no doubt about that. What is uncovered during hypnotic regression is always beneficial and liberating for the individual, provided that hypnosis is conducted by a qualified professional. In the West, this method is used in hospitals instead of chemical anesthesia, as well as in dental practices, and in the treatment of skin diseases (this branch of hypnosis is called hypnodermatology). Recently, experiments have also been conducted on the use of hypnosis for contraceptive purposes, as it has been shown that hypnosis can stop ovulation.

What other methods and psychological treatments do you apply? Describe your experiences with their application.
An important part of my education is the training for psychological counseling that I have completed. My choice was the O.L.I. method, which combines various types of psychotherapy (psychoanalysis, gestalt therapy, TA, bioenergetics, REBT), allowing the therapist to adapt to the specific client and respond to their current needs. Additionally, a significant aspect of my psychotherapeutic work is the psychological interpretation of dreams, which serves as a fantastic shortcut to the unconscious mind and has the potential to significantly accelerate the psychotherapy process. This year, my book on the psychological interpretation of dreams is expected to be published, where I describe interesting examples from my personal practice and the practices of renowned psychologists.

What is the main message of your book? The interpretation of dreams has always attracted many thinkers and practitioners of various scientific methods and alternative techniques that lead to deeper insights into the human psyche, as well as broader understandings of human nature and the nature of reality.
That’s right. I have already discussed certain aspects of this question in question 3, when we talked about Jung. The goal of my book is to make the psychological interpretation of dreams accessible to a wider audience. It is based on psychological theories but is written in a way that is understandable to people who are not from the field. Modern individuals have largely alienated themselves from their dreams, and thus from themselves. A dream is an intrapsychic dialogue that a person has with themselves, where we are given the opportunity each night to connect with the wiser part of our personality. This is not always a pleasant experience, but it is always a path toward integration and a happier, higher-quality, and more fulfilling life. When we fundamentally know ourselves, we make far fewer mistakes, love and respect ourselves much more, and consequently, we also respect and love others. In the book, alongside explanations of dominant theories and methods of interpretation, there are also psychoanalytic and analytical interpretations of common symbols that appear almost in everyone, so that anyone can take a look in the book upon waking, like a kind of scientific dream dictionary.

Can a modern person who lives and works in an urban environment, separated from nature, be mentally healthy, or is it just a matter of how disturbed or, let’s say, unstable they are?
The answer to this question requires defining the concept of mental health. There are numerous theories and definitions of mental health and illness. My personal view is that a mentally healthy person is one who is truly happy and does not endanger anyone in their surroundings. Living in modern society does not necessarily imply a separation from nature, although we are witnessing that this is becoming an increasingly common phenomenon. A person becomes separated from nature the moment they adopt the false values of consumer society and, in the race for those values, lose themselves.

What are your views on occultism, esotericism, astrology, Tarot, I Ching, and other practices that are popular today?
I am not knowledgeable about any of the mentioned techniques and do not have enough understanding to form a clearly defined opinion. The fact is that all the techniques mentioned are ancient, and I believe they would not have persisted to this day if they did not yield results. However, this brings us back to my answer to the previous question. I do not dispute these techniques, but I believe that very few are truly knowledgeable about them, and that knowledge alone is not enough; a certain predisposition is necessary to engage with these matters. In the East, all of this is understood differently, in a much more serious manner, while the Western person tends to approach it too lightly and superficially. I think the key problem is the arrogance of the Western person, their false sense of superiority, and the belief that they truly understand cultures that are completely different from their own.

A Rune, did you name the association after one?
Runes are an ancient script whose numerous variations were used both in our regions and in Northern Europe. The Vinča runic script has its roots in the Serbian Danube region and shares symbols with many scripts (it has 4 identical signs with Anglo-Saxon runes, 7 with Palestinian script, 8 with West Semitic, 9 with Cypriot, and 12 with Ancient Greek), but most closely resembles Serbian Cyrillic, with which it shares as many as 20 identical signs. The Vinča runic script is the oldest alphabetical script. These ancient symbols did not only represent sounds, but also held deeper symbolism: it was believed they had magical powers, thus they were used for protection and divination. The rune Ansuz, which belongs to the Elder Futhark (the alphabet), symbolizes wisdom, successful communication, knowledge, justice, understanding, teaching, wise decision-making, spiritual and physical balance, a broader worldview, creativity, spiritual mobility, dignity, and power. Therefore, it perfectly aligns with the philosophy of the Ansuz association. I truly can’t think of anything that can so perfectly encapsulate the ideas and goals of this association in one short word. Although a small number of people know what runes are, and even fewer know their individual names and symbolism, according to Jung’s teachings on archetypes and the collective unconscious, this does not mean that the message cannot be understood or experienced on a deeper level.

To conclude our conversation, there are some relaxing questions left: do you have any recommendations for the visitors of our site regarding books, movies, websites, music, or anything else?
My favorite literary work is Goethe’s Faust, which I believe is unparalleled and I can read it an unlimited number of times. Among my favorite works are also Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, and The Trial. I am a big fan of science fiction, so I enjoy reading Dan Simmons, Clive Barker, Arthur C. Clarke, Ray Bradbury, Aldous Huxley, as well as Lovecraft and Le Fanu. Additionally, I have a strong interest in popular astrophysics and love to read popular authors in that field. As for movies, given my profession, I enjoy European films with psychological themes. In music, I prefer the heavier subgenres of rock ‘n’ roll.